I have commented before that these anti-chiro zealots are the typical unsuccessful chiropractor, who went into the profession with the idea that they were going to strike it rich. Most were so uneducated and weak minded that they couldn't see through the "subluxation" cause of disease. In their own words they bought into it hook, lone and sinker.
And many times their anti-chiro rants swing to the threat of God's wrath against those who still practice chiropractic.
This pattern of "seduction" to unrealistic, illogical and un-scientific beliefs permeates the anti-chiro world. Take for example one segment of one comment on chirotalk today:
"""For me...16 years in chiropractic...struggled to make ends meat...attended chiropractic seminars...Parker and DE...to learn how to do what it took to succeed...already aware that patients were not flocking to my office...and for me...eventually seeing what I had also bought into and why it was a scam...I had to leave...and the reason for me was this...I could find no way to practice chiropractic honestly.
Now for those of you whose beliefs embrace the Bible...as well as all others...and what their beliefs or lack of beliefs may be...to me...when it comes to what I believed regarding the "subluxation" and what it was and what it caused...to me...to continue to believe these thungs...amounted to believing a lie. AND THAT WAS WHY I LEFT.
SO THIS IS A STORY OF WHAT ATTRACTED ME AND A STORY OF WHY I LEFT. A decision that I made based on my understanding of chiropractic...not someone elses...and I say this because it is important that whatever you do...you will have solid ground or reason that you chose to stay or leave...and hopefully it will be...if you are a christian...a reason God will accept when the day comes and you will have to give an account. """"
Although apparently free of the "seduction" of the belief in subluxation as a cause of disease, it would appear that this anti-chiro commenter has found a new seduction. For this person, has one "cult" been replaced by another?
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18 comments:
Christianity is not a cult loser. They don't lie about their central tennants, unlike chiropractic. Got subluxation? LMAO
Hey Quack DC blogger why is chiropractic rated last for ethics and honesty among the health professions in a Gallup poll.
Because they and their leaders are lying scum? You betcha.
Here learn something useful:
http://www.chiroandosteo.com/content/pdf/1746-1340-16-10.pdf
Murphy, D. How can chiropractic become a respected mainstream profession? Chiropractic & Osteopathy 2008, 16:10
Anonymous - "Christianity is not a cult loser."
What ever is a "cult loser"?
Just kidding. But I guess endoctrinating little kids into a "belief" system is not cultish. I guess having thousands of religious beliefs based upon one book is not someone lying about anything, right? And why base ALL on a collection of writings? Is there any civilization at all which does not have some "holy" writings?
If you will read a few of my posts you will see that I don't do "subluxation" work. I treat injuries.
As to ethics, it is really weird that people see chiro's as unethical when the number two or three killer in the US is medical mistakes. 500 needless deaths per day seems to me to be unethical in the extreme, but that's just me.
I think that if you could open your angry eyes for a bit you would find that there are a great number of chiro's who have broken away from the "subluxation" thing and practice a much more evidence based form of practice. The broad brush you paint over all of chiropractic is your anti-chiro undies showing through.
I personally don't see how anyone could have bought into that idea, subluxation that is, unless they really didn't or they just needed something to believe in.
>As to ethics, it is really weird that people see chiro's as unethical when the number two or three killer in the US is medical mistakes. 500 needless deaths per day seems to me to be unethical in the extreme, but that's just me.
You are such a retard. DCs use this excuse constantly. The real reasons for higher malpractice rates are:
1. They see sicker patients
2. There are more MDs than DCs.
If DCs tried to manage these patients the rates would be astronomical.
Who said anything about malpractice rates? Certainly not me. Nor have I suggested that chiropractors manage cases outside their scope of practice. That would be idiotic.
But since you brought it up, the problem of deaths by medicine is mistakes, not difficult cases. It is very clear that medical errors that kill something like 500 people every day are just that, errors and mistakes.
http://www.ahrq.gov/qual/errback.htm
Go to this web page and read it for your self.
Drv...One cult to another...sounds like you have no beliefs...and that anyone who has a belief is in a cult.
Why is it we can so easily see something we don't like when we have embraced the very thing we say we would never do?
Anyway V...the very denunciation of anything...confirms that you have a belief...it is a belief opposite the one you are denouncing. While you may not agree...that is your cult by your own definition.
Just as the athiest says he does not believe in God...he has a belief...his belief is there is no God?
When people say they beieve, it is my experience that they truly don't. It really doesn't matter what one believes, reality always wins the day.
Beliefs keep people from acknowledging reality or even questioning their perception of it.
Anon 9:45 am- "Why is it we can so easily see something we don't like when we have embraced the very thing we say we would never do?"
I think you are confusing.
DrV says...I think you are confusing.
I guess that's what God meant when he told us...they have eyes and cannot see and ears and cannot hear.
You get it...you too believe...but the opposite of those who believe in God...you do not believe in God...that is your belief...why is that confusing...
Why is it that all you Bible bangers sound the same?
In truth, I have no problem with the idea of God as such, but the idea that the Bible is "His" word is beyond me.
At any rate, I don't really see what it has to do with anything here.
When you wanted to go to chiropractic school and be a chiropractor, did you think maybe Jesus was a chiropractor, laying his hands on people healing them?
Aren't you the guy who quit chiropractic like three times or something? You sure sound like him and write like him. Maybe not.
Do you have some inherent need to have something magical to believe in?
What the Bible should have said was, they have eyes and will believe anything. They have ears and will hear anything you say and believe it.
The fact is you might be blind and now need to see.
DrV...We know what you believe...but more importantly...you have shown that you too have beliefs...and if ours are right...our beliefs...then yours...your beliefs are wrong.
That belief is what you chose to believe and my belief is what I chose to believe...but when it comes to KNOWLEDGE...where beliefs are not part of the equation...where evidence is required to substantiate a claim...then we are not talking about beliefs. Do you agree?
Yep it's you. You quit three times?
As to your discussion about beliefs, you must be referring to the "subluxation".
I don't do subluxation based chiropractic, as you apparently did. As to what they are, well, that is debatable, if they are anything at all. As I have said before, if a fixated vertebrae is a subluxation, then it can be felt and possibly demonstrated on motion x-rays, but short of that it would be hard to visualize. Easily felt however.
Now if that can inhibit some physiological process, then there might be something to the "subluxation" theory to a certain extent. I have seen a few things that intimate at an effect from manipulation on certain physiological processes, such as elevated Bp and asthma, but not enough for convincing proof or to stand as evidence.
As to your question, do you mean knowledge or facts and data. There is a reality which is evident which is outside the realm of belief and also doesn't necessarily require evidence or proof.
Yep it's you. You quit three times?
I read this and I asked myself...what is he saying? Then it dawned on me...I am the one who quit 3 times...your right. Thats me. I confess...I am the one who quit 3 times...some of us learn hard...some of us never learn and some that are far wiser than I...they only quit once.
Yes, the subluxation is an unscientiifc unprovable lie chiropractors have been taught...and some quit when they see the false science part of the lie...others like me...who believed the lie...physically and the metaphysics part...few of us are able to get out. I feel very fortunate...and it was very difficult. Which I am sure you care as much anout that as you do about really knowing what a subluxation actually is?
As for you...why are you using chiropractic to practice medicine...why didn't you go to college and become a real doctor...Orthopedics and Kenisology is part of the medical program.
Me...all I wanted to be was true to what I was...a chiropractor...but what are you doing...ignoring that you are part of a non-science using medical procedures in the mane of chiropractic.
If it makes you happy...go for it...to me it is just as wrong as trying to pass off the subluxation...but that is how I see it.
As for "beliefs" and "knowledge" they are two seperate arenas and when fame and fortune are the prize...to you and many others...all is fair...just as the old saying regarding WAR...all is fair in love and war...except in the end...when life ends...that which is passed off as true...by those who knew what they were saying was not true...are guilty of lying...and that I am glad I have quit...even though it took me three times...like the alcoholic...I am a recovering ex-chiropractor.
I am sure you will twist that...but there are probably thousands of chiropractors like myself who believed this stuff...and they still haven't come to realize they have been sucked in...they are 100% convinced they are doing what's right and acceptable to God? To me...if lying is acceptable to the God I believe in...then the Bible is wrong...but according to His Word...lying is very very bad...just as bad as the worst ot the worst. Anyway thats me and thats what I see the Bible to be saying...and if you would like me to show you the evidence for that...let me know and I will direct you to the scriptures where it says those things.
So yes...we do look to the Bible as the only Book God inspired...where He has left His Will for all to know. Certainly that is by faith...and as that is my faith...I hope I have in no way disrespected you...nor belittled you...or implied that you to do not have the same right to chose what you wish to believe as I do...you certainly have not insulted me with your words that revealed what you thought about the Bible...that is your belief.
And in America that is a belief guaranteed to you and I as I am sure you know.
Why is it all you Bible bangers need the Bible to back up behavior you know to be right and good?
Don't you know that one central theme of the bible is that the righteous person works to be righteous out of a desire to do good things and treat others like them selves, not needing the threat of eternal damnation nor the reward of eternal life.
In other words isn't it better to choose a good path because you want to and not because you think God would want you to? It's like good teaching. If you can get your students to a point where they don't need you anymore, then you have accomplished your goal.
Stop banging your Bible and your religious views. Just live it as best you can. Get away from the need to "believe" in something. What is, is. Believing in it or not.
Well V., in your diatribe you ignored the very laws of the land, the very fact that these laws are their for a reason...and the freedom of religion is foundational and pivitol to the reason our forefathers left England...you should try reading the D of I...it will tell you why they left and why it was so bad...yet somehow all that doesn't matter.
Man is able to arrive at truth on his own...as you feel you have...and those of us who look to the Bible as the answers for all the very significant questions everyman and woman should have...and somehow you seem to think this is a waste of time and people who look there don't have a good path?
That is an expression of what you believe?
Next time you pass a speed limit sign...just ignore it...by what you are saying here you came for no intended purpose except that which you wish to believe...you didn't ask to come into this world...and when you leave...when you die...ready or not...not wanting to or wanting to...which ever...just ignore that too...that what you are saying.
You only listen to you and what you think...don't let me get in your way.
Man you didn't even tell us why you are a chiro practicing medicine? How come?
I didn't ignor any laws dude. And our forefathers left England because of money, period. The Anerican revolution was about money.
And I am not a chiro practicing medicine unless you call doing physical "medicine" practicing medicine. Then by that definition I guess I am.
I was going to go to PT school but they were just too up on themselves and couldn't be consistent about the accademic requirements.
One school said I needed a class in abnormal psych, I had 18 hours of psych. The other school I looked into said I needed general statistics, I had 12 hours of stats.
It was a PT who suggested chiro school because, as she saw it, chiro's could do what they do and more.
So your saying the Declaration of Independance is wrong?
Now I will say this...money is important...but how we earn it...what we have to do to earn it...if we have to lie, cheat or steal...and we are seeing huge financially successfull organizations who have resorted to using these very tactics...white collar crime...and Lord knows how many more are doing the same thing...who are presently getting by with it...many will never get caught this side of the grave...well those who chose to live this way...are no different that bank robbers...plain out thieves...and just as those bank robbers who never get caught or the murders who never get caught...this side of the grave...they will on the next side...just as those who profess to be Christians...who continue in immoral life styles...believing because they have professed belief in Jesus...they will be saved?
According to the Bible...they too are in for a surprise.
So we need money...but how we get it as to whether it is a way God approves? Honestly gained is approved.
Thank you for answering the question...so to that...the straight chiro who believes he is the principled one...who believes chiropractic and subluxation are chiropractic and everything else is "toid"...he would see what you do as basterdizing chiropractic.
On the one hand he will be seen as the good guy...as the one who is not phony...something very attractive to the young idealist...but as to scientifically correct...they do not measure up...and as to Gods approval of their "Universal Intelligence/Innate Intelligence...their reference to God...that is contrary to what the Bible teaches as well as the lying they present when they tell the world that subluxations correct the cause of disease...
I have been holding off on commenting again here in this context but what the hey.
I find it interesting how many people think they own the Bible and all that it supposedly says. Just too stupid. Most of the world doesn't see the Bible as anything holy. Most don't believe most of what is "historically" in it. So get over your Bible BS. It's judgmental and arragant.
I also don't give a rat's a$$ about what the "straight" chiropractor might or might not think of what I do as a chiropractor. Bastardized chiropractic? Hardly. No matter the history of it's name, the elimination of subluxations is not what chiropractic is to me and most of my fellow chiropractors. We treat musculoskeletal conditions with physical medicine and manage their care, most of the time coordinating their care with others in a multidisciplinary manner. So the straights can bite me if they don't like it.
You are such a bogus fraud Mr Religious Anonymous. Your goofy, I am unique, idiotic form of writing with plenty of half thoughts and interupted phrases is also absolute dumb. You like how you sound and probably like to read and re-read your silly "prose".
You sound as bad on Chirotalk as you do here.
Sorry, but that is just the way it is. What cult are you in now?
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